Paliza del Cardenal Bergoglio a un comunista

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Paliza del Cardenal Bergoglio a un comunista

Mensaje por urantia el Miér 31 Jul 2013, 10:47 am

Paliza del Cardenal Bergoglio a un comunista

Entrevista o emboscada hecha al Cardenal Bergoglio.

Qué bárbaro! Como le dio al clavo el futuro Papa!!! Que alentador!!!
Si logra propagar éste pensamiento, tenemos esperanza que las cosas cambien para mejor!

- Empieza a circular la transcripción de una entrevista que le hicieron al entonces cardenal Bergoglio en Argentina. En realidad fue una emboscada ejecutada por el periodista Chris Mathews de MSNBC.
Pero Bergolio termina acribillando a Mathews de tal forma que MSNBC nunca la pasó al aire. Mathews, al darse cuenta que su plan fallaba,  archivó el video. Un estudiante de Notre Dame que cumplía su servicio social en MSNBC, la sustrajo y la entregó a su profesor.
El plato fuerte de la entrevista es su debate acerca de la pobreza.
El intercambio se inicia cuando el periodista trata de emboscar al cardenal, preguntándole que opinaba sobre la pobreza en el mundo.

El Cardenal responde:

“Primero en Europa y ahora en América,  algunos políticos se han dedicado a endeudar a la gente creando un ambiente de dependencia.
¿Para qué?  Para incrementar su poder. Son grandes expertos creando pobreza y nadie los cuestiona. Yo lucho por combatir esa pobreza.

La pobreza se ha convertido en una condición natural y ello es malo. Mi tarea es evitar el agravamiento de tal condición. Las ideologías que fabrican pobreza deben ser denunciadas. La educación es la gran solución al problema. Debemos enseñar a la gente como salvar su alma, pero enseñando a evitar la pobreza y no  permitir que el gobierno los conduzca a ese penoso estado"
Mathews ofendido pregunta:
...  ¿Usted culpa al gobierno?

“Culpo a los políticos que buscan sus propios intereses.  Tu y tus amigos son socialistas.  Ustedes y sus políticas son la causa de 70 años de miseria, y eso tiene a muchos países al borde del colapso.  Creen en la redistribución que es una de las razones de la pobreza.  Ustedes quieren nacionalizar el universo para controlar todas las actividades humanas. Ustedes destruyen el incentivo del hombre para, inclusive, hacerse cargo de su familia, un crimen contra la naturaleza y contra Dios.  Esta ideología crea más  pobres que todas las corporaciones que ustedes etiquetan como diabólicas.”
Replica Mathews: Nunca había escuchado algo así de un
cardenal.

“La gente dominada por socialistas necesita saber que no tenemos que ser pobres"  
Ataca Mathews...  ¿Y América Latina?  ¿Quiere borrar el progreso logrado?
" El imperio de la dependencia creado por Hugo Chávez, con falsas promesas, mintiendo para que se arrodillen ante su gobierno.  Dándoles peces sin permitirles pescar.  Si en América Latina alguien aprende a pescar, es castigado y sus peces confiscados por los socialistas.  La libertad es castigada.
Tú hablas de progreso y yo de pobreza.  Temo por América Latina.  Toda la región está controlada por un bloque de regímenes socialistas como Cuba, Argentina, Ecuador, Bolivia, Venezuela, Nicaragua.  ¿Quién los salvará de esa tiranía?”  
Acusa Mathews: Usted es capitalista.

"Sí pensar que el capital es necesario para construir fabricas, escuelas, hospitales, iglesias tal vez lo sea.  ¿Tú te opones a este proceso?”

- Por supuesto que no, pero ¿no piensa que el capital es arrebatado de la gente por corporaciones abusivas?

-“No, yo pienso que la gente, a través de sus opciones económicas, decide que parte de su capital irá para esos proyectos. La utilización del capital debe ser voluntaria. Solo cuando los políticos confiscan ese capital para construir obras del gobierno, alimentar la burocracia, surge un grave problema. El capital invertido de forma voluntaria es legitimo, pero el que se invierte a base de coerción, es ilegitimo.”

Sus ideas son radicales, afirma el periodista.

“No,  hace años Khrushchev hizo una advertencia: ‘No debemos esperar que los americanos abracen el comunismo, pero podemos asistir a sus
líderes electos con inyecciones de socialismo hasta que, al despertar, se den cuenta que se embarcaron en el comunismo’ Esto está sucediendo en estos momentos en al antiguo bastión de la libertad. ¿Cómo los EU puede salvar a América Latina si ellos se han convertido en esclavos de su gobierno?”

Mathews afirma: Yo no puedo digerir todo esto.

El Cardenal responde:
“Te ves muy enojado, la verdad puede ser dolorosa. Ustedes han creado el estado de bienestar que es solo respuesta a las necesidades de los pobres creados por la política.  El estado interventor absuelve a la sociedad de su responsabilidad. Las familias escapan de su deber con el falso estado asistencialista, inclusive las iglesias. La gente ya no practica la caridad y ve a los pobres como problema del gobierno. Para la iglesia ya no hay pobres que ayudar, los han empobrecido permanentemente y son ahora propiedad de los políticos. Y algo que me irrita profundamente es la incapacidad de los medios para observar  el problema sin analizar cuál es la causa. A la gente la empobrecen para que luego vote por quienes los hundieron en la pobreza.”
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Re: Paliza del Cardenal Bergoglio a un comunista

Mensaje por mariavide el Miér 31 Jul 2013, 7:10 pm

Hermosa nota, gracias Urantia por compartirla.

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Re: Paliza del Cardenal Bergoglio a un comunista

Mensaje por jsilva69 el Miér 31 Jul 2013, 11:55 pm

Amigos... me parece que es un fake. No he podido rastrear ninguna fuente original de la entrevista.
El que si estuvo reunido con Bergoglio fue George Weigel, analista del Vaticano para la NBC.

Lo que si pude verificar es un video de Matthews para la NBC por la eleccion del Papa.
Aca pueden ver la transcripcion. (remarcado, algunas frases importantes)

Spoiler:
CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: Hope for the pope.
Let`s play HARDBALL.
Good evening. I`m Chris Matthews in Washington.

"Let Me Start" tonight with the election of a new pope. It brings with it a great hope, and not just for Catholics. It promises a progressive church on economic justice. Francis I is a Jesuit from Argentina. He`s known for throwing off the trappings and the perks of power, living in a small apartment, taking the bus to work.

The new pope has said things about capitalism and its failure to deliver economic justice that could drive the right wing nuts. He`s the living illustration for what I`ve learned of the belief that free markets need to be offset by an active social justice toward those in need.

This is the Catholic church that looks out for the poor, that distances itself from power and wealth, that is skeptical that capitalism will raise all, that the poor can count on the wealth of the rich to trickle down to the people living in the barrios and the favelas. So big surprise in Rome tonight, the cardinals picked a Jesuit, someone from the Americas, someone who identifies with the poor and those who don`t get a break from sharp-elbowed capitalism. I find this fascinating and enormously surprising. Francis I -- I like him already.

We`re going to have a big tussle here, by the way, later in this half hour between a pair of political heavyweights, Robert Gibbs for the Dems and Steve Schmidt for the Republicans.

But let`s start with the politics and drama of the stunning election in the  Vatican. My guests are Mike Barnicle and George Weigel, NBC News Vatican analyst. I want to start with Mike. As a fellow American generalist and a Catholic, what is your -- how surprised were you by picking this guy, known for social justice and for humility and for really looking out for the little people, to use the phrase we often use?

MIKE BARNICLE, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Well, you know, Chris, I was -- I was actually stunned by two things, and one I had forgotten. I had forgotten about the theater of the church. The explosion of people in St. Peter`s Square, the universality of the church, the fact that not everyone in St. Peter`s Square was Catholic, and the fact that the Curia, the college of cardinals, selected a Jesuit as our next pope to me was very surprising and very encouraging, actually, despite the fact he`s 76 years of age, a little older than I think a lot of American Catholics expected the next pope to be in terms of age.

He is a Jesuit. And in terms of what the Jesuits are and what they profess, the faith that they have, the faith that they preach, the faith that they practice, social justice, economic justice, not hiding from the realities of economic inequality not only in Argentina and Latin America but around the world and specifically in the United States.

I think the pope`s voice is going to be a strong one. He`s going to put an oar in that water. He`s going to be rowing against the current that exists right now. But he is the pope, and his voice will be heard. I`m very encouraged by that aspect of his papacy.

MATTHEWS: George, thanks for coming on. You`re the expert. I really liked him immediately, that first impression, the guy, just little things, the way he was not taking instruction from the people who were choreographing him. He said, No, give me this now, and, Do this now. He seemed to be calling the shots right from the get-go. Maybe that`s an overinterpretation, but it`s the way I saw it tonight.

GEORGE WEIGEL, NBC VATICAN ANALYST: No, I think that`s right, Chris. I spent an hour with Cardinal Bergoglio in Buenos Aires last May, and the first thing that needs to be said about this man is that he`s a true man of God. This is someone with a very deep and rich spiritual life. He is all that you are saying about his humility, his simplicity.

I would not jump to any conclusions about his politics. He`s been very critical of the Kirchner (ph) government in Argentina. He is also a Jesuit who is something of a contradiction within the Jesuit order. He was the provincial of the Jesuits in Argentina. He was a man of what I would call dynamic orthodoxy.

That did not sit too well with many of his more left-leaning colleagues. He was sent off to teach chemistry at a Jesuit high school in northern Argentina, from which he was rescued by John Paul II.

And that`s the next thing that needs to be said here. This is a JP II guy. This is a man very much formed by the pontificate of John Paul II, who loved him to pieces. And I think we`re going to see a little bit more of that in this pontificate as it goes forward.

The name Francis is obviously very suggestive of a church of real compassion for the underdog, which doesn`t necessarily translate into any particular political or economic program, but does suggest that this guy is going to take a little bit of the baroque gilding off of the papacy.

MATTHEWS: Yes, and Michael, back to you. First of all, let`s start with the ``Rerum Novarum,`` the notion here that the encyclical of looking out for -- well, actually, skepticism towards capitalism. When I read that in his brief life description here, I was taken with the fact that he -- I know he may not be a Dorothy Day Catholic, but he may well be someone who does have that usual church suspicion of capitalism. I mean, a lot of our popes have had that suspicion all the way through the 20th century. They don`t -- they`re not -- you know, they`re not Ayn Rand people. They don`t buy the marketplace is the great arbiter of what`s good in the world.

BARNICLE: You know, off of the -- and we`ve only known the pope now in terms of him being pope for what, two hours. But he is remindful, at least to me, of an Argentinian version of Cardinal O`Malley from Boston.

MATTHEWS: Yes.

BARNICLE: He`s filled with humility. I agree with George, I think, you know, we don`t want to misread or misinterpret or interpret too early his politics. But the fact is that he does stand for social justice. He is a Jesuit. And we have not -- and he stands on behalf of victims, victims of all sorts of things, victims of economic injustice, victims of social inequality, victims of racial inequality and even -- even -- even sexual inequality. He has, I think, addressed that in part, not -- I think many American Catholics hoping for a more progressive view of Catholicism are going to be disappointed.

But we`re going to let this play out. We`ve got to hear this man speak. I was greatly encouraged by one small thing that happened this afternoon, in that he asked for silent prayer. He didn`t stand and issue his own prayer. He asked for silent prayer. We had the millions of people there in St. Peter`s Square, and perhaps around the world watching, invoking their own silent prayer.

MATTHEWS: Let me go to George on the Jesuits. I`m a Jesuit-trained guy. I went to Holy Cross. And I love the guys of Georgetown, the priests over there that are still there. We`re losing a lot of Jesuits. We don`t have as many as we used to have. They`re thoughtful. They`re intellectual. They`re deeply religious. But they sort of are, in their own ways, fascinating people and they -- because they chose this life.

WEIGEL: Yes. Chris, a couple of things. First, let`s just go back a second to something Mike said. One of the other things that Cardinal Bergoglio has steadfastly resisted is the creeping left-wing authoritarianism of the Kirchner government in Argentina.

I tried to send him a book as a gift after I came back from meeting him last May. The book came back a month later "addressee unknown." I sent the book to him through a private source. He then sent me a note saying, I`m sorry for the inconvenience, but I`m sure you understand, which indeed...


MATTHEWS: Well, what did you make of that?

WEIGEL: ... which, indeed, I did. Well, his mail was being intercepted by the government, obviously.

On the point of his Jesuit background, this is a classic, old school Jesuit, a man of serious intellectual discipline and capacity, a man of
real spiritual discipline. We`ve talked about already what a humble guy he is, how simply he lives. He used to take the tram to work in Buenos Aires, rubbing elbows with the folks. That`s who he is. There`s no put-on about that.

So I think there`s going to be a real simplification of papal style here, and that`s no bad thing in a church close to 65 percent of which now lives in the global south. That`s a pope that those people can relate to.

His first big public test will come this summer when he goes to Brazil for World Youth Day. I think he`ll be a smashing success there. It`ll be an enormous celebration of Catholicism in Latin America.

But let`s also remember this is a guy of the Western hemisphere. The papacy has crossed the Atlantic. That`s a threshold point for the Catholic church, and it`s something that all of us, I think, on both sides of the Rio Grande can take a lot of satisfaction in.

MATTHEWS: Yes, Mike, let`s talk about that politics of moving to our hemisphere, to the Americas, first pope, obviously, in 2,000 years from the Americas, Italian father, but he`s definitely a Latino. He comes from that part of the world.

I was thinking, in this country, if you`re Puerto Rican or you`re Cuban or Mexican-American or you`ve come here from Guatemala or Colombia, like so many do, you must be thinking pretty big about yourself right now, that you`ve got somebody like you, with a Spanish background and a Spanish accent, in fact. You`ve got somebody like you from that part of the world as the leader of the entire biggest church in the world.

BARNICLE: Sure. And there`s another element, too, Chris, in addition to that, that you just pointed out. and it is this, I think. If you view the church as a corporation -- and part of the church is a corporation -- and if you view the college of cardinals or the Curia as the board of directors -- and in a sense, they are the board of directors -- they selected a guy from one of the growth industries in that corporation...

MATTHEWS: Yes.

BARNICLE: ... Latin America. I mean, the huge, burgeoning Catholic population, the growth of the Christian church in Latin America and places like Africa and the Philippines far outpaces the growth, rather the deterioration in growth of Catholicism in places like Europe and North America because of what`s happened in the United States over the last 10 or 12 years. So it`s progress in terms of moving the product forward, in terms of growing the product.

MATTHEWS: Well, I`ve got the word the vice president is going to be sent over, not the president. That`s too bad. But Joe Biden will be a perfect emissary for the country, as well as the president.

Thank you, all. George Weigel, as always, it`s great to have you on NBC and MSNBC at this time, of course. You are the best. And Mike Barnicle, as always, we think very similarly therefore brilliantly.

El video original (13/03/2013):
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3036697/ns/msnbc-hardball_with_chris_matthews/vp/51168472
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Re: Paliza del Cardenal Bergoglio a un comunista

Mensaje por urantia el Jue 01 Ago 2013, 10:40 am

Julio, tejiendo redes....No????
                 me recuerda a ese administrador que decía eso....
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Re: Paliza del Cardenal Bergoglio a un comunista

Mensaje por jsilva69 el Vie 02 Ago 2013, 8:52 am

urantia escribió:Julio, tejiendo redes....No???? Me recuerda a ese administrador que decía eso....

No entiendo a que te referis especificamente, pero bueno... tenes las fuentes que ofrezco para verificarlo!
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Re: Paliza del Cardenal Bergoglio a un comunista

Mensaje por urantia el Vie 02 Ago 2013, 9:31 am

jsilva69 escribió:
urantia escribió:Julio, tejiendo redes....No???? Me recuerda a ese administrador que decía eso....

No entiendo a que te referis especificamente, pero bueno... tenes las fuentes que ofrezco para verificarlo!

 No aclares que oscurece...
no me harás, por ahora, cambiar de opinión sigo pensando que eres esa persona.-
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Re: Paliza del Cardenal Bergoglio a un comunista

Mensaje por jsilva69 el Vie 02 Ago 2013, 9:57 am

urantia escribió:sigo pensando que eres esa persona.-
Yo soy quien soy, pero para vos, puedo ser quien vos quieras...
Abrazo!
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Re: Paliza del Cardenal Bergoglio a un comunista

Mensaje por urantia el Vie 02 Ago 2013, 10:02 am

jsilva69 escribió:
urantia escribió:sigo pensando que eres esa persona.-
Yo soy quien soy, pero para vos, puedo ser quien vos quieras...
Abrazo!

 Gracias.-
  Muy amable de tu parte...
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